29 replies to this topic

[Pieancho]

BajaGringo, BlueJeans, and Chicito were starting to get off track on the Walmart thread and really started a discussion of corruption. I think this would be an informative and good place to have us list the examples, both large and small, of corruption we have personally had to deal with or really know about. The details of how the corruption was handled and who you go to see to get things done faster than the average person would be of interest.

One of the first incidents of corruption I experienced was in the small farming center on the Pacific Coast where my father in law paid his workers more than the going rate. This guarenteed plenty of workers and he believed in sharing his wealth to those who work hard. After about a year of this, the other farmers started causing him problems because he was paying too much. Before long, he couldn't sell his bean crop or sell his milk, because of the boycott other farmers had put up against him. The result of this was he lowered his pay. He died about a year after this incident.

I would think that there will be lots of people who will tell about the corrupt cops, but I for one, after forty years of driving around Mexico, have only been stopped once for running the fastest yellow light in Mexico City thirty years ago. $5 got me out of there and my head shaking about how fast the yellow light changed.

[the.ronin]

Corruption? Corruption is government intrusion into market efficiencies in the form of regulations. That's Milton Friedman. He got a goddamn Nobel Prize. We have laws against it precisely so we can get away with it. Corruption is our protection. Corruption keeps us safe and warm. Corruption is why you and I are prancing around in here instead of fighting over scraps of meat out in the streets. Corruption is why we win.

From Syriana. Gotta love it.

[JDTJ]

I have lived in TJ for the past year and a half..

I have gotten pulled over in excess of 15 times..

14 of those times were soley to solicit a bribe attempt..

only once was the stop warranted..

JD

[ItsJustBeachie]

My only encounter with the Policia was a number of years ago when I went the wrong way up an Autopista ramp in Rosarito. Fortunately, I'm a gringa and had my two daughters in the car. I did tell my (at the time) Russian male friend to keep his mouth shut LMAO....

Had to follow them to the local police station but the story of my only $100 being for groceries and my kids got me off with no problemos.

Beachie

[the.ronin]

I got caught taking a piss in a parking lot by Animale. Cops were on me like flies to shit. My girlfriend ripped them a new asshole, and they let us go.

Helps to have a local around I guess is the morale of the story.

[bluejeans]

Last month I was coming back home, to San Diego ,from a few days in Rosarito Beach. I don't know what street I was on in TJ when I got pulled over. The cop said in fairly good English that I didn't stop at the stop sign and I had to go with him to the police station. There were NO stop signs anywhere around. I asked him how much the fine was and he told me $20 US. Sorry to say that I gave him the $20 because you never know what will happen if you go with them to the station. Just about the same thing happened to me a few years back and I figure it's just the way it is there.

[mikethedog]

There were NO stop signs anywhere around. I asked him how much the fine was and he told me $20 US.

Most of the times if you agree to go to the station, cops will let you go rather than waste their time. You could have asked to talk to a judge and explain that there were no stop signs at that intersection.

Sorry to say that I gave him the $20 because you never know what will happen if you go with them to the station. Just about the same thing happened to me a few years back and I figure it's just the way it is there.

Corruption is a two-way street. By giving them the "mordida" you are perpetuating this practice. So don't complain about something that you are promoting.

mikethedog

[zunigan]

What happens if you are alone, like myself, a woman and I speak no spanish? I hope by next summer to be living there with my husband, but I will be driving to the border, and at some oint may get pulled over. what if.?

[bluejeans]

I agree with you mikethedog " Corruption is a two-way street. By giving them the "mordida" you are perpetuating this practice. So don't complain about something that you are promoting."

I have been going to Baja, mostly Rosarito Beach, for 25 years. I have almost always had a good time when there and was going to bye a place in Quinta Del Mar back in '80.
Haven't gone a lot in the last about 10 years but before that just about monthly for a three or four day weekend. I have only been hassled by the cops a few times myself but I have seen people beat up by cops. They didn't seem to have been doing anything out of line, but I really don't know. I have heard of people disappearing in or on the way to the Tijuana jail, AND FRANKLY, FOR $20, I WONT TAKE THAT CHANCE. Change doesn't start at the bottom it has to start at the top and as long as mordida is the way of life from the top down it will not change.

[PLAYAZ]

Yes its ridiculous, I got pulled over 7 times in 1 nite within 4 hours, between TGI fridays and downtown.
I supposedly made a left turn on sanchez which was illegal> yea right! so we gave them $20,(I didnt have a DL) the rest of the night was basically because we were in a a 2006 SUV with US plates, so they figure we have some $$$ to spare coz we are dumb americans who are scared lol. But no more bribes for the nite tho! It gets kinda stupid, after a while I started cussing them out and they let us go each time.

Also we were stopped another day for having a rental without insurance, they wanted to take the car to the station and return to enterprise>yea right!
That it supposedly is a $500 fine to enterprise to get it back.
So that was a $100 bribe, he wouldnt take any less. He said he would follow us to the border to make sure we take the car back immediately>yea right! he made the closet right he could and took off!.

a friend got pulled over a while back and they searched him and snatched $300 out his wallet behind his back and gave the wallet back. He didnt even realise till he got here.

After the first few times of being harassed, I guess u realise that they are wrong and dont give in to the bribe. If you have US plates or a brand new car, they are likely to pull u over. Have you ever noticed, most people pulled over look American/white in a new car/truck? Whats really crazy is after 6 pm, its like business has started and they patrol in high persuit to pull over anyone that looks like they have dollars or are foreign. (just my observance in playas)

But I did get a phrase from a friend, which i will repost, I totally forgot it right now, but if you mention this phrase to them, they become hesitant to ask for a bribe or disrespect you in any way. It some thing to do with the higher authorities?
Maybe someone knows???...but I will repost soon.

[BajaGringo]

I have lived here for years, drive a late model SUV, I go out a lot and never have been pulled over for something I DIDN'T do. I have found the cops to always be very polite although it might help that my Spanish is very fluent. In fact they always ask me where I learned to speak Spanish.

Two observations:
1. If you feel that you are being harrassed with no justification and you have a Mexican cell phone call 078. It is the tourist assistance number and they are interested in cops that are out of line. Ask the cop for his badge number. A friend of mine used this tactic once when he was stopped for running a questionable red light and the cop immediately handed him back his drivers license and walked away.
2. Urinating in a public area is no more acceptable in Mexico than in the US. In fact it is one of the things that the locals have come to hate about tourists in TJ and to be honest I don't blame them.

[ItsJustBeachie]

Before moving down here five months ago, I made weekend and extended trips over the years and many times alone or with my daughters. I've found no eye contact with vendors works well, a bit of an attitude when necessary, act like the locals and not an American tourist, respect for being in someone else's country, etc. Attempts to speak spanish even if you don't really know the language makes a big difference as well as knowing some of the customs. Once you're here, you will pick up the language just by assimilation. Besides, learning spanish is the most respectful thing you can do for the privilege of living here.

Beachie

[Chiquito]

Pissing in public is rude and gross anywhere. Four times when driving back to Playas there have been drunk, stoned, or just crazy Mexican guys pissing on the cars as they went by.

Speaking Spanish helps significantly. I do know one guy who was taken before a judge for asking a cops name and badge number, the judge backed up the cop. That's corruption backing corruption and ridiculous. He took it to the sindacatura who admonished the judge and let the guy off. But, the cop and judge are still working, no serious repercussions to them.

If you speak Spanish, go to the following link to see complaints by many Mexicans about the corruption in Tijuana...

http://www.frontera....ome.asp?exp=811

There are many comments there and in other things how crime has increased since Jorge Hank Rohn took office. The man is above the law. Note how he is now opening casinos in his Caliente sports book locations. The Mexican congress was discussing legalization of such casinos last year but they are still illegal at this time, never the less, here they are. Would he be opening them were he not mayor? Why does the state or federal government do nothing?

[droog]

Tijuana Police are corrupt. It's a fact, simple as that.
The situation is getting worse, not better.

I just got back from another weekend in Tijuana visiting a girlfriend who lives there who I've known for 10 years. I rent a car in the States with Mexico insurance and cross over since I don't want to drive my (nice) car in Mexico. This time I only got pulled over 2 times in one hour (for no reason). Two months ago it was 3 times in under an hour (again, for no reason). Normally, I just tell the Police I used to live near TJ (which is true) and I request the citation in writing and that I'll mail the fine to the Ayuntamiento. They usually let me go at this point without doing anything since I seem to not be the usual ignorant gringo tourist they like to target. I also speak and understand Spanish fairly well. I've never paid anyone in Mexico any bribes for any reason in the 10 years I've been regularly spending there.

This weekend was different.

After asking me to get out of the car in broad daylight and searching me up against the car with my legs spread (which I've had to do in the past), they insisted that I was on drugs and that I was lying when I said I was not. For the record, I don't drink, I don't smoke, I don't do drugs (I don't even drink coffee) and I look like the clean-cut normal white guy that I am. I was getting concerned at this point since by now I would have been on my way. They then asked me to spit (I guess it's some sort of drug test) but I had a hard time coming up with a mouthful since my mouth had gotten pretty dry due to nerves. One officer kept questioning me while the other searched the car. They then tried to tell me that my Avis rental with Mexico insurance contract were no good even though I just picked up the car an hour before. More concern on my part. It's hard to reason effectively with two people with guns who are accusing you of lying.

By this point, one of them was thoroughly searching through my overnight bag and found some loose over-the-counter cold pills in my toiletry kit. They told me that it wasn't legal to have meds in Mexico without a prescription from the country you brought them from. They didn't seem to listen to any explanation that I had about over-the-counter meds. They then searched me again more carefully, really patting me down this time and even looking down my pants and underwear. They didn't find anything of course, but said that I was under arrest. Now I'm getting really concerned. They tell me that my rental car is going to be impounded and then they put handcuffs on me behind my back, tell me that they are taking me to the police station where a doctor there will do a real drug test and that they are going to hold me there for 72 hours and that I'll have to post a lot of money to get out. They put me in the back of the police car. My mind is really racing at this point while I sit in the back of a police car, in handcuffs no less, for the first time in my life. Now I'm actually scared. Who knows what other lies they may say or what kind of "evidence" they may put in my car.

I guess they had me where they wanted me and could see that I was at a low point. That's when they changed. They asked me what I wanted to do at that point. Well, for the first time ever, I was ready to actually give money to a law enforcment officer. A bribe. Something I never thought I would have to do, ever. I just wanted to get those uncomfortable handcuffs off and go see my girlfriend. I offered them $100. They became friendly and accepted. Even shook my hand. I guess it's just business for them. Unfortunately, I caved, which only means they will do it again to someone else.

I love Mexico, it's culture and it's people. But not the police. Something needs to be done. I'm not sure when I'm going back now... and when I'll see my girl again.

[Ryu]

I posted this info in another forum to a TJ visitor who also got harassed by the cops. I apologize for the language and the content but I think it's good advice to get a perspective from the cops point of view.

I live in TJ, I drive around everywhere, day or night. I might not have balls as big as some of the other guys here but driving isn't a scary experience for me. And when I'm under the influence, I feel safer driving in TJ than in the states. If you're ever going to drive drunk, do it in TJ. With enough money, you should be able to get out cheap, in the states, it could ruin everything. But of course, if you can don't drive when you're drunk either.

What the cops look for is fear. If you seem easily intimidated, which most of us are taught to be in the states in respect to cops, then they smell blood and squeeze to see what comes out. It's a numbers game to these guys, they don't care if you pay or not because they know they stop enough guys, they'll go home happy. At the very least, someone will pay for thier lunch or dinner and probably even a drink after their shift. If you understand what they are doing, that you're just numero sies or nueve of the night, it takes the fear out of the confrontation.

Listen, most "problems" can be taken care of for $20 to $40 in TJ as long as you don't run over someone. It's not like in the states where even a minimal traffic fine is like $100 and that's minimal. Unless you did something really bad, you should never have to pay more than $40, trust me, they'll take it. Seriously, are you going to let the fear of losing $20 or $40 make you 1) afraid and de-manned 2) not come down to TJ 3) pay outrageous prices at US parking lots not to mention having to walk or pay for a taxi? That money that you lose can be made back in an hour, some asshole cop squeezing your balls and taking your pride, that's priceless. You decide.

[Ryu]

I think what Playaz was talking about is called the Sindicatura. Here's their website:

http://www.sindicatura.gob.mx/

Complain form on the site:

http://www.sindicatu.../complaints.asp
(if you are really afriad, fill a fake one out and leave it with your paperwork, when the cop see this, he might not be able to read what you wrote but he will recognize the the logo and the word Sindicatura. That's a good way to turn the tables on them).

List of infractions and fines:

http://www.tijuana.g...nglish/pag6.asp

Seriously, with Mexican cops there's nothing to fear but fear itself. They up the ante when they try to intimidate you sometimes. This includes, asking you to step out of the car, saying you have to go to the police station, put you into handcuffs, put you their truck or in the back seat even, all this is design to make you wet your pants. You know what they are legally required to do when they take you in, yes see a judge. They can only impound your car for drunk driving, nothing else. The tow truck driver won't even tow your car unless it's valid or he loses his license. And what's ask yourself, what a cops going to tell a judge when he takes you in. Uh, they guy didn't stop at a stop sign. The judge is going to look at him and then start questioning him on why he didn't just give you a ticket according to procedure. Also, now there's a paper trail and when you do report it to the Sindc., he's going to be in trouble.

We all know that cops are corrupt in Mexico and yes you are right in that it should start at the top. But not likely. The good news is that, the top guys don't really care much about the small frys either. If someone is stupid enough to get caught, the top guys will let him fry to as an example to show, hey look, we're doing our jobs.

Knowledge is power.

[Ryu]

Sorry for stealing your thread Pieancho but I think this is some good info. Please return to your corrupt antidote and if you wish to talk more about this, let's start our own thread.

[TJBlogBoy]

I am enjoying this topic.

[TJDave]

I guess they had me where they wanted me and could see that I was at a low point. That's when they changed. They asked me what I wanted to do at that point. Well, for the first time ever, I was ready to actually give money to a law enforcment officer. A bribe. Something I never thought I would have to do, ever. I just wanted to get those uncomfortable handcuffs off and go see my girlfriend. I offered them $100. They became friendly and accepted. Even shook my hand. I guess it's just business for them. Unfortunately, I caved, which only means they will do it again to someone else.

Droog... it's Christmas time and the rateros' tactics get bolder during this time.

I know it's too late, but if you are in that situation you should demand to see the judge, do not put up with their shennanigans... they cannot tow your vehicle nor put you in jail until a judge says so... the last thing they want is for you to see the judge. I know that in the heat of the moment you are really vulnerable and not sure of what they are capable of, but if you stick to your guns, remain calm and have a little knowlege of how these scams work, you can get them to back down... they will cut you loose and look for easier prey.

Sorry for your bad experience and your lost money...

[BajaGringo]

Just this morning while driving into Tijuana I joked with my girlfriend about it being Christmas and knowing how to drive to avoid problems. You get to know the favorite hangouts for traffic cops so I always drive with care this time of the year. I pointed out 5 or 6 spots I know of along the way and sure enough, we watched 2 of them pop up and catch a couple of unsuspecting "customers". Of course they had committed traffic infractions - speeding and a running a red light. But it is funny to watch how it always increases at years end. In all my years it has never changed, be it Mexico, Brazil, Argentina or Venezuela. I think what happens to some degree is that we get used to being able to be "loose" with the traffic laws here in Mexico and then when we get stopped it seems unfair. I know, I have gotten caught too...